It has been discovered blackholes actually slowly die, they somehow radiate energy in gravity waves.

Perhaps Black holes (not the event horizon, the "Actual Stuff") has a real size?

Also the Big Bang seems to suggest our universe isnt endless either (Although, the big bang is a Theory, it is the most widely accepted one), just really really really big. So the universe does not go for infinity.

Theres a Limited Speed, Mass/energy in the universe and size. If there is a limit on everything there is a limit on complexity. Do we realy know of any instances in which infinity does exist, or have we created the concept?

Generally it is believed that you will never measure anything to have an infinite value. So in that sense, infinities do not exist in nature.

Simply put, we can only measure real numbers. Infinity is not a real number.

That said, in a physical theory, that is a mathematical model we can have many non-observable constructs. These maybe infinite. For example, the vacuum energy density can be infinite in quantum field theory (It is a nieve calculation, but assuming a continuous structure at all scales etc you can show that the zero-point energy is infinite. In standard approaches it QFT you are then free to redefine the vacuum energy by subtracting off the zero-point energy giving a zero energy denisty). Only measurable energies are constructed as finite differences.

In physics the presence of some (measurable) quantity blowing up to infinity is usually seen as the signature of the breakdown of a theory. This means theory is unable to cope with what it is being asked to do.

Discuss.

the universe isnt infinite but however its size is beyond the comprehension of the human mind, thats what the concept is really beyond human comprehension

the only problem in cases such as this is the famous example of Pi (several others aswell), it shouldnt exist as it appears to have no end point

Just to correct this, the Big Bang theory isn't an event that explains the creation of the universe, merely its expansion and present state. Before the Big Bang, the universe still existed, it just happened to be an incredibly dense singularity from which nothing (including time) escaped. As far as we can tell, the universe has always existed. In fact, if I understand it correctly, the first law of thermodynamics dictates it must have always been so.

The rest of your post is probably beyond the limits of my scientific and mathematical mind which has severely dulled from 4 years working in television.

Ah true.

I have also heard the concept that the Bing band occurs due to a 'previous' if you will, universe collapsing on itself top a single point.

Never thought I'd post anything beyond your limits (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

That made me laugh (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

There's a theory I'm sure was brought up on here which is the only reason I had a read into it in the first place. It states an oscillation of sorts of the universe, continually collapsing on and expanding itself. Maybe that's what you're meaning?

The universe is not infinite. If it were then there would be an infinite amount of stars and they would of had an infinite amount of time for their light to reach us. So the night sky would be wall to wall with stars, not even a hint of blackness in between.

This post has been edited by FrankSideTits: Mar 10 2010, 1:54 PM

It can be infinite in the sense that it has always existed, but still have a finite duration within which time and space have been expanding.

Si's the science genius, not me. And like I said, my job is retarding me slowly but steadily.

This post has been edited by DougieFFC: Mar 10 2010, 2:00 PM

Yeah, correct. I meant in its current state of expansion though.

Infinity is a hard concept to get the brain around I reckon. If it exists then why is my local Waterstones not full of great books typed by monkeys!!!!!?

Simple answer is, we don't know. There's the possibility that we will never know if the universe is finite or infinite. Knowing the shape of the universe would help determine whether it is finite or infinite, but again, we don't know whether the universe is flat or spherical. It could be that the universe is expanding and will continue to expand forever, making it infinite. Then again, it could collapse upon itself.

Either way, I'm sure gravity and the ever mysterious dark matter have a lot to explain in whether the universe is finite or infinite.

If the universe were infinite we could never know it for sure. Infinity is something that can't be gotten to the bottom of. You could never reach a point and mark it infinity and claim the universe is infinite. For the same reason you couldn't say whether the last whole number in an infinite sequence is odd or even. We can only mark finite things.

Pi.

NOM NOM.

Just remembered that this is called Hawking's radiation. At least, it is if I'm thinking of the same thing. Hawking's radiation is when black holes emit particles thus causing them to lose mass and ultimately, disappear.

I wish I could text out the time travel theory on the event horizon of a blackhole. (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Don't we all? (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Although, if that doesn't work, the Spaghettification process would be awesome.

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Spaghettification.jpg/200px-Spaghettification.jpg)

(IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

There was a brilliant scientist who theorised that it was possible to time travel within your own lifetime, but allegedly he stepped into a quantum accelerator back in 1999 and vanished.

And never returned home (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

whether the universe is infinite or not, the universe is expanding at the speed of light and since we can never travel faster than that its an imposibility to ever know

from basic understanding (i might be wrong) infinity is a concept
taking a roots understanding of the Copenhagen interpretation and the theory based around shrodingers cat infinity can exists as long as we don't try to measure it

(it is more complex than that but i cant be bothered writing out mathematical theory and quantum mechanics)

True, Lorentzian manifolds, which are used in general relativity to construct space-time models show that no object can exceed the speed of light, however, it has been theorised that space-time can be warped so that something can move vast distances quicker than light would. The acual object isn't moving faster than ligh, but space has been warped infront of it to make the distance it travels alot shorter, thus traveling at a higher velocity than light.

WARP DRIVE.

However, one could never stop moving apparently - something to do with whoever is inside the warp bubble needing to communicate with the universe outside, which one cannot do, because one is exceeding the speed of light in the external reference frame. I read something ages ago which speculated about laying down tracks of ions of finite length along which warp corridors would travel. Course, you'd have to lay those tracks with conventional spacecraft, with conventional engines.

This post has been edited by Ill Culinary Behavior: Mar 11 2010, 12:45 PM