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> Psychic Mediums and Tarot Readings.
Genie
post Mar 14 2010, 11:57 AM
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I'm a Ph Forum addict
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QUOTE(DougieFFC @ Mar 13 2010, 7:00 PM) *
She didn't know. She subtly pumps you for information you don't realise you're providing her whilst carefully watching your reactions when she makes vague assertions before tightening it into something more definite.

I see what you are saying BUT...
The dead person wasn't someone my mother knew, it was my father that actually worked with him, we knew of his father but not him...when I got back in the house I said to my father...."How did Rich greet you when he saw you" and my dad said "like this" and did the same greeting that the psychic had told us...how the fook would she know when even me and my mother didn't and she hadn't even seen my dad? Also right at the end of the reading she said that they guy who had "come through" first was called Richard. How would have she known that when we gave no clues away?

The baby...how would she know what month it was going to be born plus the sex of it when even we didn't know at that time??

The job that my mate went for...he didn't know he was going to get the job nor did he know what day the phone call would come through...funny how the psychic did isn't it?

That funeral....we hadn't at that point mentioned anything about legalities but she knew we wouldnt be going the funeral due to legal commitments.

She didnt pump my mother or me for info because as stated, some of that stuff she came out with even WE didn't know until we got back home/ a later date.

This post has been edited by Genie: Mar 14 2010, 11:58 AM
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Indy
post Mar 14 2010, 3:13 PM
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Ph rehab needed...
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They're a bunch of scamming cancer whores!

I still don't understand how people believe in this shit. It's simply a way to take money and offer false hope to people who are genuinely grieving. Disgusting.
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DougieFFC
post Mar 14 2010, 9:02 PM
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QUOTE(Genie @ Mar 14 2010, 11:57 AM) *
I see what you are saying BUT...
The dead person wasn't someone my mother knew, it was my father that actually worked with him, we knew of his father but not him...when I got back in the house I said to my father...."How did Rich greet you when he saw you" and my dad said "like this" and did the same greeting that the psychic had told us...how the fook would she know when even me and my mother didn't and she hadn't even seen my dad? Also right at the end of the reading she said that they guy who had "come through" first was called Richard. How would have she known that when we gave no clues away?

The baby...how would she know what month it was going to be born plus the sex of it when even we didn't know at that time??

The job that my mate went for...he didn't know he was going to get the job nor did he know what day the phone call would come through...funny how the psychic did isn't it?

That funeral....we hadn't at that point mentioned anything about legalities but she knew we wouldnt be going the funeral due to legal commitments.

She didnt pump my mother or me for info because as stated, some of that stuff she came out with even WE didn't know until we got back home/ a later date.


Again, I say, just read up on how cold-reading works. You talk about the psychic being able to hit specific bits of information but you do not seem to be offering any specifics of the reading. Do you remember exactly how the conversations went and if you don't, how do you know you weren't offering up information, or that the information she gave you was as specific as you remember it?

I'm betting you don't recall with any great level of detail the order of things that came out of her mouth. You remember the hits but I bet you don't remember the misses. It's human nature because we're genetically vulnerable to seeing patterns in randomness and because we can't remember conversations to the level of detail that would allow us to properly analyse the woman's technique.

The details you have offered are far too vague to go into any detail towards possible techniques the so-called "psychic" used, but these "predictions" are hardly uncommon or impossible with the techniques fake mediums use. It is incredibly likely you were giving her clues even if you weren't aware of it. You'll nod or show signs or recognition if the things she says can fit in any way to your life. You'll look blankly or look confused if she isn't close to a hit and she'll know to move on. Every step of the way you'll be letting her know if she's getting hotter or colder until she turns her vague probing into a "specific thing she couldn't possibly know". The whole thing about cold-reading is this: you give up information without realising it!

She'll predict the future but she'll do so by giving information that could be interpreted in a number of ways. She has nothing to lose by making a number of predictions because if they don't come true you'll either forget about them or she can say "it hasn't happened yet but it will" or "I think it may have been referring to [insert vague metaphor here]". I'm betting she said some things that haven't come true but you either don't remember them or you aren't correctly weighing them up against the things that did come true to see if she was a reliable predictor of the future.


If you are to go to this woman yourself, do yourself a favour and record the entire thing on your mobile phone or something (presumably without the person's knowledge). Then replay it back to yourself and watch how she leads you by the nose. Without being able to play the encounter back to yourself I pose to you that you are not showing a necessary level of scepticism towards a knowingly fraudulent profession.

Do yourself another favour and watch Derren Brown be a very convincing medium for five minutes here.

Every medium who has ever had their technique recorded has been shown to be using all the classic techniques of the trade, and there is nothing supernatural about it. Is your medium special in such a way that has never been documented in human history, or is it more likely that you and your mother are just as susceptible to being misled that everyone else is?
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Cloud dust and r...
post Mar 15 2010, 9:35 AM
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My mum saw a fortune teller a long while back, and as part of the service she let her tape record it. She told her id pass all my exams, which I did. But I looked geeky as fuck back then (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) she proberly saw how submissive i was at that time and how shy and out to impress people i was, so came to that conclusion.

It would be good if more of them tape recorded themselves.

I'll admit to keeping an open mind either way and if it all turns out fake i'd be very disappointed, and could imagine some people getting suicidal.
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DougieFFC
post Mar 15 2010, 1:37 PM
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QUOTE(Electric Storm @ Mar 15 2010, 9:35 AM) *
My mum saw a fortune teller a long while back, and as part of the service she let her tape record it. She told her id pass all my exams, which I did.


Again, it's a low-risk prediction. 1. Actually saying that makes it more likely to happen (because if you don't believe it's all shit it probably gives you confidence 2. Probably more than 50% chance of it 3. If you'd fucked up her focus would have been on you, not some random fortune teller 4. plenty of excuses she could offer if you fucked up
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DougieFFC
post Mar 15 2010, 1:45 PM
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Here's a good primer that takes about five minutes to read about the technique: Some highlights:

QUOTE
n communicating with others we rely on non-verbal and verbal skills. In fact you may be surprised to know that a huge 80% of the information is non-verbal.


This isn’t so surprising once we remember that in primitive times, (before language was even thought of) non-verbal communication was the only way of understanding human beings.


QUOTE
He was your father or grandfather – (and, if they see a lack of recognition in the face of the person with the raised hand they might continue – ‘or was a fatherly figure in your life’.

So the information is narrowed down – other information is offered or the statement given ‘I’ll leave that with you to think about’. Much of what is said is ambiguous but the distressed person who is thinking of the heart attack victim may only remember afterwards the applicable content of the ‘reading’. That method is known as ‘shotgunning’.


The funniest line you here some "psychics" offer is when they talk about someone of yours who has died: "They were taken away from you suddenly....one moment they were there, the next they were gone...." er, that's what happens when every single person dies (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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xDebbieee
post Mar 15 2010, 1:47 PM
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QUOTE(DougieFFC @ Mar 15 2010, 1:45 PM) *
Here's a good primer that takes about five minutes to read about the technique: Some highlights:
The funniest line you here some "psychics" offer is when they talk about someone of yours who has died: "They were taken away from you suddenly....one moment they were there, the next they were gone...." er, that's what happens when every single person dies (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


I have noticed actually that in most readings i have been given, the information is vague (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) It's like - you've had a lot on your mind recently or something's troubling you (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
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Super Dragon
post Mar 15 2010, 2:21 PM
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Personally, i dont believe in it
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Sublime
post Mar 15 2010, 3:35 PM
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I don't believe in any of it. At my work experience there was a chic who did tarot cards and told me, "You will have a lot of decisions to make in the future." Thank you captain obvious!
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DougieFFC
post Mar 15 2010, 4:15 PM
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QUOTE(xDebbieee @ Mar 15 2010, 1:47 PM) *
I have noticed actually that in most readings i have been given, the information is vague (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) It's like - you've had a lot on your mind recently or something's troubling you (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)


(IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Yeah, couldn't that be said about everyone who exists, or would ever visit a psychic?

It reminds me of an old psychological experiment called the Barnum effect. In it, the psychologist (Bertram Forer) gave a personality test to his students, collecting bits of information about peoples' lives, and then gave them the resulting analysis, and asked them to rate its accuracy out of 5. The students invariably thought it was very accurate, and specific to them. The average score was 4.26. He then told them to swap with their neighbour and rate the accuracy of their analysis.

When they did this they all found that they had been given the same analysis (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) :

QUOTE
You have a great need for other people to like and admire you. You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage. While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them. Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You pride yourself as an independent thinker and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic. Security is one of your major goals in life.


Psychic mediumship uses this technique quite heavily.

Another plug for Derren Brown's brilliant explanation of how medium do what they do:
part 1
part 2
part 3 is down (IMG:http://media.profileheaven.com/images/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
part 4
part 5
part 6

Most of the meat is in the two parts if people only have 20 mins. The rest is quite funny anecdotes. DB is pretty awesome, just ask Socks or Si who are very gay for him.

It'd be interesting for someone who is still a "believer" to watch/listen to this and then feed back on how their encounters are different to this.
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Reve
post Mar 15 2010, 4:17 PM
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My mum went once and the woman told her loads of stuff about her own life (situation, things that had already happened etc) when she couldn't possibly know any other way.
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DougieFFC
post Mar 15 2010, 4:40 PM
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QUOTE(Reve @ Mar 15 2010, 4:17 PM) *
My mum went once and the woman told her loads of stuff about her own life (situation, things that had already happened etc) when she couldn't possibly know any other way.


I take it you haven't actually read the thread?
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Reve
post Mar 15 2010, 4:42 PM
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QUOTE(DougieFFC @ Mar 15 2010, 4:40 PM) *
I take it you haven't actually read the thread?

No, I just replied to the original post.
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DougieFFC
post Mar 15 2010, 4:44 PM
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QUOTE(Reve @ Mar 15 2010, 4:42 PM) *
No, I just replied to the original post.


Ok. I think you would benefit greatly from educating yourself on the non-supernatural techniques that mediums use to get the effect you describe. Listen to the first part of the Derren Brown interview I linked to above, for a start.
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